Gameplanning the Phase 2 Fix

Blue_Hen_TDI

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Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Since questions on Phase 2 seem to come up with some frequency, I figured I'd try to summarize what is in the updated warranty booklet in one post. Hope it helps. Note: some of the information in the booklet remains ambiguous.

Information is based on Page 6 of the amended warranty here: https://www.vwdiesellookup.com/pdf/VWCourtSettlement_Emissions_Disclosure_Gen3_Final.pdf

1. The Phase 2 notifications should be sent sometime between "early 2018" and "June 30, 2019".

2. All cars will get updated software and a second NOx sensor at the initial Phase 2 appointment.

3. Cars exceeding 40K mi (DSG) or 70K mi (manual) will get new: Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter and are not due for any further appointment after the initial Phase 2 appointment.

4. For cars under those mileages in #3 above, the booklet is ambiguous. It states, "If your vehicle has accumulated fewer than 40,000 miles (for automatic transmissions) or 70,000 miles (for manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst replaced a second time, before it reaches 150,000 miles. We will notify you when it is time to bring your car in for the second catalyst replacement." The booklet does not specifically state what hardware will be replaced on cars under the mileage thresholds at the first Phase 2 visit. It seems to imply that cars under the threshold will get at least a new Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, as it mentions a "second catalyst replacement" before 150K miles. Who knows?


5. Job is expected to take 9 hours and a loaner vehicle shall be provided.

6. VW considers the "full useful life" of our cars to be 150,000 miles. :p
 

The Tortoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Location
Ottawa
TDI
2015 GSW Trendline - White
So, if you are under the 70k miles you don't get a new DPF?

The Canadian documents seem to be more clear.

We will install updated emissions control
system hardware – specifically a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel
Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter – that
is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life
(240,000 km) of your vehicle. As part of the Phase 2 modification,
we will also install a second NOx sensor and corresponding software
to improve the performance of the on-board diagnostic (OBD) system.
If your vehicle has accumulated fewer
than 64,000 km (for automatic transmissions) or 112,000 km (for
manual transmissions) at the time of your Phase 2 update, your car
will need to have the Diesel Oxidation Catalyst replaced a second
time, before it reaches 240,000 km.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

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Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
I see the Canadian booklet has the same ambiguity. Neither expressly states what is replaced at the initial visit on cars under the mileage thresholds.
 

The Tortoise

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Location
Ottawa
TDI
2015 GSW Trendline - White
I read that as all cars (regardless of mileage) get a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter as well as the additional NOx sensor.

And if you are below the mileage threshold you get a second Diesel Oxidation Catalyst.
 

Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
I read that as all cars (regardless of mileage) get a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter as well as the additional NOx sensor.

And if you are below the mileage threshold you get a second Diesel Oxidation Catalyst.
But it never explicitly states that anywhere. This has been a source of confusion for some time.
 

The Tortoise

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Joined
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Location
Ottawa
TDI
2015 GSW Trendline - White
The Canadian documents explicitly state it. I agree that the US documents are ambiguous.
 

The Tortoise

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Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Location
Ottawa
TDI
2015 GSW Trendline - White
This paragraph from the Gen 3 booklet. The lack of any mileage constraints indicates all vehicles will be getting those components.

Page 9 - https://www.vwcanadasettlement.ca/w...-TDI-BOOKLET_GEN-3_ENGLISH-final_new-size.pdf

The second part of the emissions modification will involve outfitting
your car with new emissions control parts to ensure system reliability
and durability over time. We will install updated emissions control
system hardware – specifically a new Diesel Particulate Filter, Diesel
Oxidation Catalyst, and Selective Catalytic Reduction Converter – that
is needed to maintain emissions performance for the full useful life
(240,000 km) of your vehicle.
How is that not explicit (genuinely curious)?
 
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Blue_Hen_TDI

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Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
OK, so Canada is clear (I guess). That doesn't help anybody in the US though.

Back to square 1. I guess we'll know (hopefully) when the notifications come out. I may be right around that magical 40k mile mark in my DSG at that point, so I'm trying to figure out if there will be any benefit, hardware-wise, to either accelerating or milking my mileage at that point, depending on what I get with the fix.

I wish it wasn't so ambiguous.
 

Ted Hurst

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Location
44224
TDI
2015 GSW
I'm thinking it's all about the warranty. Should I be concerned about waiting for phase two so the additional 5 years 60k won't leave me short. I'm a little confused on the wording. They say the greater of 11 years or 162k / 5years or 60k after phase 2?? So if I have my phase 2 done at 70k does the warranty end at 130k or 162k? I'm thinking it's still 162k since they use the word "greater of".
 

GoFaster

Moderator at Large
Joined
Jun 16, 1999
Location
Brampton, Ontario, Canada
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
CASE 1: 162,000 miles or 11 years from new, whichever come first.
CASE 2: 60,000 miles or 5 years from the time that phase 2 is completed (this actually starts when phase 1 is installed but resets when phase 2 is installed).

Whichever is LONGER of case 1 or case 2 in your particular situation.

If you have the fix installed while the car has low mileage/age then case 1 will probably apply. If you have the fix installed with high mileage/age then case 2 will probably apply. You don't have to "choose" between case 1 and case 2 ... just do the math.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
So I wait and have phase 2 done at 160k or 10.5 years from when it was new 6 months ago and get a total of 15.5 years or 210k miles if played out right? New stop sale 2015 Beetle 6 months old.
 
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Ted Hurst

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Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Location
44224
TDI
2015 GSW
I'd like to wait and see what phase II does to performance/economy/longevity.
 

Ted Hurst

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Joined
Jul 15, 2007
Location
44224
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2015 GSW
I haven't even done the first phase fix....:eek:
Probably the best way to go. The German Engineers tuned it for performance and economy. Emissions... Not so much..

Speaking of German engineering and tuning check out these old GTI commercials. These commercials are rather funny but shows a little bit of the Corporate culture at VW.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Dx9MhrqcE
 
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Blue_Hen_TDI

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
Location
Slower, DE
TDI
owned: 96 B4V, 06 Golf, 12 NMS, 15 GSW
Is the 2nd update mandatory or can I just skip it as is and have it tuned?
Mandatory? Not really. To meet federal emissions requirements, technically yes, but short of your state passing a law requiring evidence of the fix for your next registration renewal, how would it ever be enforced?

As far as tuning, you obviously risk warranty denial, if that matters to you.

My plan is to wait until I get my Phase 2 completion sticker affixed under the hood before I entertain tuning and emissions hardware creativity.
 

Bam15012

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Location
SW PA
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagon
Mandatory? Not really. To meet federal emissions requirements, technically yes, but short of your state passing a law requiring evidence of the fix for your next registration renewal, how would it ever be enforced?

As far as tuning, you obviously risk warranty denial, if that matters to you.

My plan is to wait until I get my Phase 2 completion sticker affixed under the hood before I entertain tuning and emissions hardware creativity.
I was thinking the same thing, but didn't realize that it may be another year.. I guess I'm just getting impatiant.
 

740GLE

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Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
Pull the trigger on the tune and flash back to stock as needed, you'll enjoy the tune and never look back.
 

jtskir222

Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2016
Location
vt
TDI
2014 jetta wagon tdi 2015 passat b7 tdi
Pull the trigger on the tune and flash back to stock as needed, you'll enjoy the tune and never look back.

I turned in my 15 tdi and just picked up a 15 passat tdi from vw with 4k miles.
it had the first fix done.
I notice less power and 4-5 mpg less.
I would like to do a delete. but i looked on line with my new vin # and it say i am qualified for $7k for 2nd fix...
if its going to take a year or so i may just do a tune with everything left intack
question to you is.. what tune are you using.
did it get it back to the old vw tune or better with power and mpg ??
any idea if anyone has copied the old tune from a car just to flash on their new one??

thanks
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
7K for the 2nd fix sounds a bit high, but 4K on a '15 sounds like a New Old Stock, not something that's been in service since 2015, any NOS sold by a dealer has zero additional money coming back to the owner.

Either way the online portal has been notoriously incorrect regarding additional payments to new owners of '15s. File the paperwork and you'll prob get an email stating you aren't eligible for any more coin.

Tune that's installed is a modified stage 2 with slightly lower peak torque due to DMF shudder at 300tq at 1800 rpms.

Power is increased and never really noticed any MPG drop offs, we were getting 40-45mpg before thetune and about the same after, maybe more, but hard telling with how much I the wife prob enjoys her right foot.

An old tune via the hand held flash tool wont work with a new VIN, each tune/flash device is VIN locked until the stock tune is reinstalled.
 

Biggu

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 5, 2012
Location
Columbus OH
TDI
2012 JSW PANA/ NAV
I turned in my 15 tdi and just picked up a 15 passat tdi from vw with 4k miles.
it had the first fix done.
I notice less power and 4-5 mpg less.
I would like to do a delete. but i looked on line with my new vin # and it say i am qualified for $7k for 2nd fix...
if its going to take a year or so i may just do a tune with everything left intack
question to you is.. what tune are you using.
did it get it back to the old vw tune or better with power and mpg ??
any idea if anyone has copied the old tune from a car just to flash on their new one??
thanks
If the dealer did the fix then you are not eligible for the second portion of the rebate.

I am in the same boat, I purchased mine from VW as a buy back and I am not eligible for the second rebate.
 

sands80

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 Golf TDI 6MT SEL
Pull the trigger on the tune and flash back to stock as needed, you'll enjoy the tune and never look back.

What device do I need to purchase, to record my current OEM software, bring it to VW for the fix, and if I choose, flash the old settings back?

Q-Pro from Kerma?- tried to call them but they couldn't give me a straight answer
Flashzilla from Malone?
 

GreenLantern_TDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2014
Location
Iowa
TDI
2015 GOLF SEL
Either malone or kerma will work. You get there tune on there flash tool. You save your ecm tune on to the tool when u install the tune. Simple.
 

St.Hubbins

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
TDI
'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
finally pulled the trigger on a Kerma tune... can't wait for its arrival.

fyi, they're running a 10% off special, which was a pleasant surprise... $550 for tune and Q loader!
 

ddorrer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Location
WVa
TDI
2015 GSW Tdi, 2012 JSW Tdi DSG (Sold w/80k miles), 2010 Sportwagen TDI 6spd (Traded)
Im using a inline Euro tuning box from Race Chip.de. Shipped from the Vaterland.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,

Bam15012

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2017
Location
SW PA
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagon
I just flashed my TDI yesterday with the Kerma stage 1+. WHAT A DIFFERANCE! Feels much stronger, to bad the dsg shifts so wierd.
 

St.Hubbins

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 16, 2010
Location
Nashville
TDI
'10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
I just flashed my TDI yesterday with the Kerma stage 1+. WHAT A DIFFERANCE! Feels much stronger, to bad the dsg shifts so wierd.
+1
haven't had a chance to really open her up yet, but immediately the difference is fantastic... no complaints for me on DSG shifts in S mode. will write up a complete review soon
 
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