Is synthetic blend oil in over 200,000 miler TDI good or bad or indifferent?

SRHeer · Jun 15, 2017

I have a 2001 Beetle TDI and needed to change oil so all I had quick access to was a Valvoline Heavy Duty Diesel 15-40 Oil now I changed the oil filter like I always do but should I be concerned about using this instead of the Rotella 15-40 fully synthetic diesel oil that I usually use?

jettawreck · Jun 15, 2017

Rotella 15w-40 is NOT synthetic.
Plenty of folks use non-synthetic 15w-40 in the older TDIs, but I really don't understand why. There was a reason vW spec'ed a full synthetic for the turbo engine. A full synthetic 5w-40 like T6 Rotella or Delvac 1 is so superior and not much more expensive per 10K mile intervals. I buy Delvac 1 ESP for $13/gal net after the rebate.

turbobrick240 · Jun 15, 2017

I'd probably change it out for 5w40 after 5k miles or less. I also have an '84 Volvo with the D24- hasn't been on the road for some time though.

SRHeer · Jun 15, 2017

You are correct the synthetic diesel oils are usually 5-40 wt - the rebate you get for Delvac 1 ESP - is it on line somewhere? Because Walmart sells on line for $54 a gallon - that's quite a difference from the $13 you mentioned with rebate? And Walmart pricing is always competitive - how do you get such a rebate?

SRHeer · Jun 15, 2017

Turbobrick240 - how many miles does your D24 have? I have heard they are not a very high mileage vehicle. What oil do you use in it? A synthetic may work well since they have said that its oil passages are a bit small.

gatz · Jun 15, 2017

I always thought synthetic was required in turbo cars because regular oil cokes up in the turbo after you shut down the car. Since the turbo is extremely hot, when oil circulation stops the oil literally burns and turns to carbon. Synthetic was supposed to be dramatically better at handling this. Some cars had after run oil pumps for this, but ours does not.

turbobrick240 · Jun 15, 2017

SRHeer said:
Turbobrick240 - how many miles does your D24 have? I have heard they are not a very high mileage vehicle. What oil do you use in it? A synthetic may work well since they have said that its oil passages are a bit small.

My '84 245 has 235k miles on it. I think the engine/trans. could probably go another 100k, but the chassis not so much. I used various oils in it, but I think the last couple changes were 50/50 Rotella 5w40 and 15w40. I really enjoyed that car- it was smokey and slow, but it always got me where I was headed. And it could haul a ridiculous amount of stuff.

jokila · Jun 16, 2017

I've seen T6 at Home Depot for $21 for a gallon, even at Wallyworld when it's in stock. Add to that a quart for about $7 and you are in for $28. Filter for less than $8 and you are good for 10K @ $40 w the taxes.

That's less than 1/2 penny per mile. Why jack around with non syn when the cost is inexpensive over the oil change interval?

jettawreck · Jun 16, 2017

SRHeer said:
You are correct the synthetic diesel oils are usually 5-40 wt - the rebate you get for Delvac 1 ESP - is it on line somewhere? Because Walmart sells on line for $54 a gallon - that's quite a difference from the $13 you mentioned with rebate? And Walmart pricing is always competitive - how do you get such a rebate?

The local Fleet Supply sells Delvac 1 ESP for $24.99 gal. The Mobil rebate is $12/gal (up to five gal) a couple times a year usually. Keeps me supplied with quality stuff at budget price.
The Mobil 1 TDT is also sold/rebated but at higher cost. For whatever reason the Fleet store prices/sell gallons at much higher cost than qts in the M1 package.

ugenetoo · Jun 16, 2017

Walmart sells Mobil 1 0W40 European formula synthetic for around $25 for a five quart jug.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 16, 2017

These cars are 15 years old, there are lots of oil options available. But I'm guessing that NONE of the oils mentioned in this thread so far have VW's 505.00 certification for the ALH engine. With so many good oils with the certification available at a reasonable cost, why wouldn't you just run what's approved for the car? Penny-wise and pound-foolish, IMO.

1854sailor · Jun 16, 2017

X2 what IBW said...

jokila · Jun 16, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
These cars are 15 years old, there are lots of oil options available. But I'm guessing that NONE of the oils mentioned in this thread so far have VW's 505.00 certification for the ALH engine. With so many good oils with the certification available at a reasonable cost, why wouldn't you just run what's approved for the car? Penny-wise and pound-foolish, IMO.

I am out of warranty at 392K miles. I will take my chances.

BobnOH · Jun 16, 2017

It's always been good practice to use the same oil throughout the life of the car. Mostly because of the seals.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 16, 2017

jokila said:
I am out of warranty at 392K miles. I will take my chances.

Me, too. But I still wouldn't run 15/40.

belome · Jun 16, 2017

BobnOH said:
It's always been good practice to use the same oil throughout the life of the car. Mostly because of the seals.

You are showing your age.

As for all of this... if there was only some forum dedicated to fuels and lubricants.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

jokila · Jun 16, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Me, too. But I still wouldn't run 15/40.

true dat.

BobnOH · Jun 16, 2017

belome said:
You are showing your age.
As for all of this... if there was only some forum dedicated to fuels and lubricants.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

True that.
The old motors suffered from poor seals and such, one of the reasons 100k miles used to be near end of life or rebuild time.
These TDIs seem to really like full synthetic, 5w-40, 0w-30/40, etc. pretty much interchangeable.
Folks love to debate oil and tires, don't overthink it.

jettawreck · Jun 16, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
These cars are 15 years old, there are lots of oil options available. But I'm guessing that NONE of the oils mentioned in this thread so far have VW's 505.00 certification for the ALH engine. With so many good oils with the certification available at a reasonable cost, why wouldn't you just run what's approved for the car? Penny-wise and pound-foolish, IMO.

While Delvac 1 no doubt doesn't have the blessing of VW's spec rating, many have found thru UOA that it is a fine oil, as good or better than Rotella T6, M1 TDT, etc. There are probably many others that are as good or superior to the VW spec. That's old news and been hashed thru in every forum section.
Choose your favorite and worry less.

turbocharged798 · Jun 17, 2017

15W-40 non-synthetic DIESEL RATED oil is fine in an ALH in warm weather. You will need to drop the OCI to 5K so it really doesn't make much sense to run it. The comments above about the turbo running hot and gumming up oil doesn't apply much to the ALH IMO. EGTs just aren't that hot.

When I rebuild an ALH, I usually run 15W-40 for the first two oil changes to flush out any contaminants(couple thousand mile OCI). After that I switch to 5W-40 and 10K OCIs. Never had an issue and all the engines I have built still run great and burn very little oil.

Now if you ran some cheap gasser oil all bets are off. Gasser oil is a great way to kill an ALH.

scooperhsd · Jun 17, 2017

OP - you SHOULD have been running synthetic all along - from when the car was bought to the end of life ! The turbocharger if nothing else is plenty of reason by itself.

Per my 2000 NB owners manual - any synthetic 5w40 that meets CF4 or better (try to find something that doesn't), some ACEA spec (more applicable to Europe than North America), or anything that meets VW505.00 or its successors. My 360K miles have seen mostly VW505.00 or 505.01, but I have used Rotella T6 (once even to 15,000 miles before oil change! ). I would not hesitate to use the Mobil 1 0w40 Euro car formula that meets VW505.00 .

Speaking of Oil change intrevals - the 10,000 miles for ALH is VERY conservative, since North American ALH did not get the oil life sensor. In Europe, where they do get it, depending on use you could go 30,000 miles or more before that sensor would say oil change time.

I don't know how this would reflect on the PD or CR engines - on my 2015 Golf we have been sticking to the manual recomended 10,000 miles of VW507.

IndigoBlueWagon · Jun 17, 2017

VW sent out a TDB 'way back in '96 advising dealers to use 5w40 synthetic in the early TDIs because the small squish area and heat in the combustion chamber was causing the top piston ring to carbon up and stick, causing excessive oil consumption.

The report above is for a non-TDI is appears and isn't relevant to a TDI.

People should do what they want. These engines seem to take abuse pretty well.

dirtride · Jun 22, 2017

Redline makes an diesel specific 15W-40 synthetic oil. I bought a case by mistake and not sure if I should run it or not.

Maybe 2 quarts 15W-40, 3 quarts 5W-40 or vice versa?? (different weight blend, same Redline oil. just because I don't want to run 5 qts of 15W-40)

turbobrick240 · Jun 22, 2017

dirtride said:
Redline makes an diesel specific 15W-40 synthetic oil. I bought a case by mistake and not sure if I should run it or not.

Maybe 2 quarts 15W-40, 3 quarts 5W-40 or vice versa??

I don't see why not. Or you could run it 50/50 with 0w40.

KLXD · Jun 22, 2017

Why would one run a "blend"? The one or two I've looked at out of curiosity didn't say what the mix was.

Probably a large percentage of mineral, and a small percentage of no doubt legally rather than chemically synthetic.

flee · Jun 23, 2017

dirtride said:
Redline makes an diesel specific 15W-40 synthetic oil. I bought a case by mistake and not sure if I should run it or not.
Maybe 2 quarts 15W-40, 3 quarts 5W-40 or vice versa?? (different weight blend, same Redline oil. just because I don't want to run 5 qts of 15W-40)

I would be ok with putting it in the ALH during the hot summer weather we get.

donDavide · Aug 21, 2017

IndigoBlueWagon said:
These cars are 15 years old, there are lots of oil options available. But I'm guessing that NONE of the oils mentioned in this thread so far have VW's 505.00 certification for the ALH engine. With so many good oils with the certification available at a reasonable cost, why wouldn't you just run what's approved for the car? Penny-wise and pound-foolish, IMO.

Post number 10, M1 0w40 is 502.00/505.00. I use it in my gassers all of the time and sometimes in winter but other times in ALH also.

Rrusse11 · Aug 21, 2017

I've been running Castrol Edge Euro Formula 0w-40w, full synthetic
manufactured in Belgium and has 505.00 vw rating spec.
~$28 for 5qts with tax at Wally World.
When I found this on the shelf, I figured that the thinner spec may use a bit more oil, but car uses < a quart in 10k. As pointed out, why wouldn't you use the "proper" oil for the vehicle? It's a lot cheaper than fuel.

donDavide · Aug 22, 2017

Rrusse11 said:
I've been running Castrol Edge Euro Formula 0w-40w, full synthetic
manufactured in Belgium and has 505.00 vw rating spec.
~$28 for 5qts with tax at Wally World.
When I found this on the shelf, I figured that the thinner spec may use a bit more oil, but car uses < a quart in 10k. As pointed out, why wouldn't you use the "proper" oil for the vehicle? It's a lot cheaper than fuel.

Wally World has it for $25, roll back $22 somtimes.

norbert77 · Jul 29, 2022

scooperhsd said:
OP - you SHOULD have been running synthetic all along - from when the car was bought to the end of life ! The turbocharger if nothing else is plenty of reason by itself.

Per my 2000 NB owners manual - any synthetic 5w40 that meets CF4 or better (try to find something that doesn't), some ACEA spec (more applicable to Europe than North America), or anything that meets VW505.00 or its successors. My 360K miles have seen mostly VW505.00 or 505.01, but I have used Rotella T6 (once even to 15,000 miles before oil change! ). I would not hesitate to use the Mobil 1 0w40 Euro car formula that meets VW505.00 .

Speaking of Oil change intrevals - the 10,000 miles for ALH is VERY conservative, since North American ALH did not get the oil life sensor. In Europe, where they do get it, depending on use you could go 30,000 miles or more before that sensor would say oil change time.

I don't know how this would reflect on the PD or CR engines - on my 2015 Golf we have been sticking to the manual recomended 10,000 miles of VW507.

What is this oil life sensor, is it magic?

Is synthetic blend oil in over 200,000 miler TDI good or bad or indifferent?

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