Possible New-to-me vehicle purchase

JDSwan87 · Oct 31, 2018

So in roughly 1 month, we will have a new addition to the family. I naively thought I could fit 2 car seats in the back of my 2005 Jetta wagon. While yes, they do indeed fit, there is no way I can drive with a forward facing carseat behind my drivers seat. Rear facing takes up more space. So, I might be looking to purchase a new-to-us vehicle.

I'm 6'2" 350lbs, so I'm a pretty big guy. Keep this in mind.

Must EASILY fit 2 car seats in the back seat
Durability is key
Not brand specific at all
Figure $8k budget
Gas or diesel doesn't matter
Manual trans would be sweet would make this hurt less for me but obviously auto is likely.

Ideas?

oilhammer · Nov 2, 2018

If you can find one, and it is nice (so, you'll almost certainly have to look well outside your area), the first generation Honda Odyssey (and its twin, the Isuzu Oasis) are great vehicles with small children. I had one, and had my children not required a wheelchair, I'd still have it.

They are an actual 100% made in Japan Honda, so the best of the best. Assembled like an eye surgeon as Jeremy Clarkson would put it. Bulletproof 2.2L (and later 2.3L) belt driven 4 cylinder from the Accord of the same era. 4 wheel independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes. Simple swing out doors. Lots of room for the driver, too (I am 6'1" and was over 300 pounds at one point, I had no problems). Easy to get in and out of. Stop, steer, handle like a car. The rearmost seat folds flat into the floor, so plenty of easy room for strollers, baby bags, etc. Mine was the higher end one, so it had individual seats in the middle row, which could recline, just like the fronts. All were automatic, but they had a nice out-of-the-way column mounted shifter which is nice. Awesome sounding Pioneer stereo, back when Japanese cars actually had Japanese electronics. Mine was a 1996.

300k miles, not a squeak, peep, pop, rattle, nothing. Used some oil, but not a crazy amount. The 1998 got the 2.3L which also added VTEC, so they were a bit peppier. Brother had one of those. Honda switched to the American Odyssey in 1999 (the bigger transmission-eating V6 one) but continued making the smaller first gen one in Japan for the local market and for Isuzu for a couple years longer. They still make a descendant of it today.

This was not a big deal for me, but the first gen Ody was statistically the least problematic vehicle ever according to Consumer Reports. I bought mine well used, but other than a set of tires and brakes and PM, I never did anything to it. Sold it to my sister, she promptly crashed it

, then my brother took it and half-ass fixed it with junk yard parts and used it as a work vehicle for a couple more years and trashed it unmerciful until someone slid into it in the snow.

JDSwan87 · Nov 2, 2018

oilhammer said:
If you can find one, and it is nice (so, you'll almost certainly have to look well outside your area), the first generation Honda Odyssey (and its twin, the Isuzu Oasis) are great vehicles with small children. I had one, and had my children not required a wheelchair, I'd still have it.
They are an actual 100% made in Japan Honda, so the best of the best. Assembled like an eye surgeon as Jeremy Clarkson would put it. Bulletproof 2.2L (and later 2.3L) belt driven 4 cylinder from the Accord of the same era. 4 wheel independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes. Simple swing out doors. Lots of room for the driver, too (I am 6'1" and was over 300 pounds at one point, I had no problems). Easy to get in and out of. Stop, steer, handle like a car. The rearmost seat folds flat into the floor, so plenty of easy room for strollers, baby bags, etc. Mine was the higher end one, so it had individual seats in the middle row, which could recline, just like the fronts. All were automatic, but they had a nice out-of-the-way column mounted shifter which is nice. Awesome sounding Pioneer stereo, back when Japanese cars actually had Japanese electronics. Mine was a 1996.
300k miles, not a squeak, peep, pop, rattle, nothing. Used some oil, but not a crazy amount. The 1998 got the 2.3L which also added VTEC, so they were a bit peppier. Brother had one of those. Honda switched to the American Odyssey in 1999 (the bigger transmission-eating V6 one) but continued making the smaller first gen one in Japan for the local market and for Isuzu for a couple years longer. They still make a descendant of it today.
This was not a big deal for me, but the first gen Ody was statistically the least problematic vehicle ever according to Consumer Reports. I bought mine well used, but other than a set of tires and brakes and PM, I never did anything to it. Sold it to my sister, she promptly crashed it , then my brother took it and half-ass fixed it with junk yard parts and used it as a work vehicle for a couple more years and trashed it unmerciful until someone slid into it in the snow.

Any gen 1 Odyssey in my neck of the woods is well rotted away. What do you think of the gen 4 Odyssey (2011-2017)?

oilhammer · Nov 2, 2018

That's why I said you'd have to travel to get one.

The later Ody is not "bad", just a bigger, thirstier, bloated whale with a worse build quality to the body.

Hey, I flew from STL to Vegas to get my Eurovan, and I got a good one. Worth every penny and then some.

JDSwan87 · Nov 3, 2018

What's the opinion of the Ford Flex, FWD only... any year range better than others?

Fix_Until_Broke · Nov 4, 2018

The 2013+ Passat's are another option to consider. I'm 6'2" all legs and a rear facing car seat fits behind me in the drivers seat with inches to spare. I can push the front seat back until it hits the car seat and would have to scooch forward to reach the pedals. The trunk is similarly cavernous. Picture below...

Girlfriend has a 2015 TSI, fits the whole family of 4 and all our stuff, the 1.8T drives very diesel like, lots of low end power and quick transient response, gets ~40MPG on highway trips and high 20's around town. She bought it in late 2016 with 36k miles on it for $14k, but I'm guessing there are similar examples in your price range, maybe even a manual?

oilhammer · Nov 5, 2018

JDSwan87 said:
What's the opinion of the Ford Flex, FWD only... any year range better than others?

Ugh... gross. 12 hour water pump job, and if you do not do them it destroys the engine. Transmissions are junk. They eat suspension and brakes and engine mounts like candy.

JDSwan87 · Nov 5, 2018

oilhammer said:
Ugh... gross. 12 hour water pump job, and if you do not do them it destroys the engine. Transmissions are junk. They eat suspension and brakes and engine mounts like candy.

Well there goes that option

oilhammer · Nov 5, 2018

2006 (and older) Toyota Siennas are pretty good.

Again I would urge you to look to the south and get something that hasn't had a salt bath for six months a year since it left the factory.

No way I would ever buy any used car that had been in Michigan.

gulfcoastguy · Nov 5, 2018

Being from the South, and 3 miles from salt water, I would suggest being cautious about used cars from Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina for the next two or three years. Salt water tidal surge does real nasty things to brakes and wiring.

JDSwan87 · Nov 5, 2018

gulfcoastguy said:
Being from the South, and 3 miles from salt water, I would suggest being cautious about used cars from Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, and North Carolina for the next two or three years. Salt water tidal surge does real nasty things to brakes and wiring.

My search area is Kentucky, Tennessee, Southern Ohio etc

IndigoBlueWagon · Nov 5, 2018

I'd track down a 2015 Passat TDI manual. They're over your budget, but with the warranty repair costs would be low, and your overall cost may be lower than a $8K car with more miles and less warranty.

johnboy00 · Nov 10, 2018

oilhammer said:
2006 (and older) Toyota Siennas are pretty good.
Again I would urge you to look to the south and get something that hasn't had a salt bath for six months a year since it left the factory.
No way I would ever buy any used car that had been in Michigan.

Just Curious. Why not the 05's ? Our 05 is up around 270k miles with the only unscheduled maintenance being a radiator and a flex pipe. Even rust wise its pretty much rust free.

My son graduated from college 3 years ago and took it on 1 month 9K mile cross country trip. The only problem it had was a CEL because we had the spark plugs changed and the mechanic apparently left a wire loose somehow.

tikal · Nov 10, 2018

I would say the first generation Honda Odyssey and the Mazda 5 that was brought to the US beginning in 2006 have some similarities in terms of space optimization and reliability. The down side for the Mazda 5 (our family has one) is mediocre efficiency and torque because of having a gasoline engine

oilhammer said:
If you can find one, and it is nice (so, you'll almost certainly have to look well outside your area), the first generation Honda Odyssey (and its twin, the Isuzu Oasis) are great vehicles with small children. I had one, and had my children not required a wheelchair, I'd still have it.
They are an actual 100% made in Japan Honda, so the best of the best. Assembled like an eye surgeon as Jeremy Clarkson would put it. Bulletproof 2.2L (and later 2.3L) belt driven 4 cylinder from the Accord of the same era. 4 wheel independent suspension, 4 wheel disk brakes. Simple swing out doors. Lots of room for the driver, too (I am 6'1" and was over 300 pounds at one point, I had no problems). Easy to get in and out of. Stop, steer, handle like a car. The rearmost seat folds flat into the floor, so plenty of easy room for strollers, baby bags, etc. Mine was the higher end one, so it had individual seats in the middle row, which could recline, just like the fronts. All were automatic, but they had a nice out-of-the-way column mounted shifter which is nice. Awesome sounding Pioneer stereo, back when Japanese cars actually had Japanese electronics. Mine was a 1996.
300k miles, not a squeak, peep, pop, rattle, nothing. Used some oil, but not a crazy amount. The 1998 got the 2.3L which also added VTEC, so they were a bit peppier. Brother had one of those. Honda switched to the American Odyssey in 1999 (the bigger transmission-eating V6 one) but continued making the smaller first gen one in Japan for the local market and for Isuzu for a couple years longer. They still make a descendant of it today.
This was not a big deal for me, but the first gen Ody was statistically the least problematic vehicle ever according to Consumer Reports. I bought mine well used, but other than a set of tires and brakes and PM, I never did anything to it. Sold it to my sister, she promptly crashed it , then my brother took it and half-ass fixed it with junk yard parts and used it as a work vehicle for a couple more years and trashed it unmerciful until someone slid into it in the snow.

JDSwan87 · Nov 11, 2018

What about the Mazda5 with manual transmission? Any input?

oilhammer · Nov 11, 2018

johnboy00 said:
Just Curious. Why not the 05's ? Our 05 is up around 270k miles with the only unscheduled maintenance being a radiator and a flex pipe. Even rust wise its pretty much rust free.
My son graduated from college 3 years ago and took it on 1 month 9K mile cross country trip. The only problem it had was a CEL because we had the spark plugs changed and the mechanic apparently left a wire loose somehow.

Like I said, 2006 and older. 2005 is older than 2006...essentially the same.

tikal · Nov 11, 2018

JDSwan87 said:
What about the Mazda5 with manual transmission? Any input?

Ours is a 2006 with the automatic transmission and from the drive train perspective no major issues. I would say the suspension system is the weak link, being noisy going over bumps and needing some additional maintenance. I cannot speak of the manual transmission. Our Mazda 5 was entirely assembled in Japan (Hiroshima I believe).

oilhammer · Nov 12, 2018

But the 5 is mostly a Ford (Focus) with a top hat and sliding rear doors. The 3 was also a Japanese assembled Ford. Hence the "FoMoCo" all over things.

That said, I think the 5 is a nice package. And the fact that they can be had with a manual makes them an even better option.

They like to rust, though. That is something the Mazda side contributed in spades, just like the 3 and the 6.

I know the automatics have a common problem with the transmission controllers giving out. They are not hard to replace, though. Right on top of the transmission, under the battery tray. I've done a few of those.

JDSwan87 · Nov 12, 2018

oilhammer said:
They like to rust, though.

Nevermind...

it looks like all signs keep pointing to the Honda Odyssey... oh, and mama told me "if you buy that, I will not drive it..." in regards to the gen1 Odyssey... looks like it's 2007+ (I like the 2017+, but $$$)...

oilhammer · Nov 13, 2018

Hehe. Well my wife wasn't thrilled with our Ody either, but I never took away her Passat. The Ody was just the extra kid hauler, nothing more. She did drive it quite a bit though. She's spoiled with TDIs... torque is addicting.

She loves our Sprinter (which, incidentally, uses less fuel than our 4cyl Odyssey and is four times the size).

JDSwan87 · Dec 13, 2018

Well, I have done more research and discovered that the 08-10 or 14-17 Odyssey is the sweet spots. I don't care for the 08-10 body style so it's 2014+.

Today I went and test drove a 2016 just to see how I liked it and car seat fitment. Drove nice and quiet. LOVE the amount of space behind the 2nd row of seats with the 3rd row folded down. Car seat is a good fit, I can put the front seat almost all the way back and still have enough room for car seat clearance behind me. Has plenty of power but the VCM (variable cylinder management) scares me. I would definitely get a "muzzler" to turn off the VCM. Many have attributed the VCM to be the cause of spark plug problems, oil consumption, early CAT failure etc. Also it has a "lifetime trans fill" and we all know how those are...

I also test drove a Buick Regal TourX today. I had a little time to kill. I REALLY like the TourX. I fit comfortably in the driver's seat and if I put the seat all the way back, I can barely reach the pedals! The 2.0 turbo had plenty of power, the trans shifted well and has "auto-stick" that will actually let you down shift hard if you tell it to. Sadly, the major deal breaker is car seat room. It has more rear legroom than my MK4 Jetta but it doesn't help with car seat fitment. If I didn't have to battle car seats, I would likely be buying a TourX. Hopefully they are still selling them in 8 years, when I will be in the market...

Jetta SS · Dec 13, 2018

That Regal Tour X is sweet, was just reading an article about the deals they're doing. I got what I wanted back in those days, had a 2 door car lol. My wife complained about the car seat, but that was her job and as a late 20's guy I had the car I wanted. I know now I was wrong, it's cool that you're considerate and putting the family first.

oilhammer · Dec 14, 2018

Ask the Honda dealer service department how much to replace the engine mounts in the VCM Odyssey.

Usually, it is so crushingly expensive the owners won't do it, then it proceeds to beat the crap out of the drive axles, hoses, wires, exhaust, etc. and before you know it, it is a big heavy expensive broken turd. At least they ditched the Pax wheels and tires.... *shudders*.....

Good news is, the later Ody mounts are at least less expensive than they once were. The VCM was only on Touring models at first, then Honda pushed it on the lesser trim levels as standard. A 2014's mounts will be less problematic than say a 2010's.

Otherwise Honda's V6 engines (all of them) are stellar. They mostly fixed the transmission problems too, but I would still drain and fill it every 30k miles, ALWAYS use the parking brake, and NEVER move from D to R while rolling, even a little. Honda automatics are internally more like a manual, and can get awful gear wear and the tolerances of the shafts inside the case are so tight that gears on the different shafts can actually touch one another if they get sloppy. It is most noticeable by an awful "CRUNCH" when engaging D or R (many times I hear this in parking lots) and it is just throwing metal chunks all over inside.

Most Hondas have a 10k mile service interval, but the Ody, Pilot, Ridgeline still are on a 7500 interval... but they generally cannot go that long without needing the 0w20 oil topped up, and they only hold 4.5 quarts. It is pretty common for Honda engines to use a little oil after a while, but the lighter weight stuff makes it even more pronounced (you should see how fast a Subie eats 0w20!

).

Some of the newer fancier models also have an expensive tire size that is short lived, I forget which ones, and it may just be part of a package on that version not standard. Just a heads up... if you have kids, you do not want an unexpected $1000 bill for a set of tires. But as I said earlier, at least they are not Pax. Good gravy what a steaming heap of Fail that was...

JDSwan87 · Dec 14, 2018

Oilhammer, I know the engine mounts are pricey. That's why I want to get the lowest mile unit I can and immediately install the Muzzler to turn off the VCM. From what I've read, the VCM causes engine vibration, which in turn causes the active engine mounts to work a LOT. Then they fail and well, you know... Is it safe to run a 7500 mile OCI or should I go to 5k? Didn't know about tires being goofy size, I will keep that in mind when shopping more than I normally would!

Once I buy one:
Install Muzzler
Trans drain/fill 2x
Spark plugs
Cabin filter
Oil change
Drain/fill coolant
Flush brake fluid
Grease any zerks I can find
Coat with fluid film

oilhammer · Dec 14, 2018

The spark plugs and timing belt are usually either 105k or 120k (you'd have to check the owner's manual of the specific year to be sure). No need to do them any sooner.

ATF is Honda specific, get it from the dealer if you do not have another source. ATF-DW.

I would only use OEM Honda filters, too. These are usually made by Filtech. I would absolutely go the full 7500 miles, use a name brand synthetic oil, and check it periodically. Coolant is a blue stuff. No need to mess with that until timing belt time.

PS fluid is also Honda specific.

Brake fluid is DOT3 or 4, nothing special.

It will have no grease fittings. I would plan on periodic lube of the caliper guide pins, especially in your area. Quick and easy to do during a tire rotation.

IndigoBlueWagon · Dec 14, 2018

oilhammer said:
I would plan on periodic lube of the caliper guide pins, especially in your area. Quick and easy to do during a tire rotation.

This made me smile. When I was a kid my dad used to do this on our '74 Civic because they'd seize otherwise. Some things never change.

D-Cup · Dec 14, 2018

Interested in this because I’m soon-ish in the market for a minivan.
Not to hijack the thread, but why not the dodge/Chrysler variants?
My folks have a ‘98 Chrysler town/country that we put 280k on. Oil changes and tires was basically it. Brakes maybe once. Then they moved, my dad drove the smaller more fuel efficient car (95 Mazda protege - sold with 350k miles) and my mom drove my grandmother’s car, taking her to appointments and such. After sitting a few months, the van wouldn’t start again. So there’s that...
But 280k miles? Do they not make them like that anymore? Did my folks get lucky with theirs?
Used, looks like the Honda & Toyota minivans run almost double the $$ compared to the Dodge Grand Caravan on CarGurus.
Just wondering if/why they are worth twice the money?

oilhammer · Dec 14, 2018

They got lucky.

The ChryCo stuff wouldn't even be close to comparison from what I have seen. And I have worked on every generation of them with every single engine/trans combo they ever sold here.

They rust. Bad. Even here. Like put-your-foot-through-the-body bad. Engines are hit or miss, the Chrysler 4 cylinders, while not very powerful, were not bad engines. The Mitsubishi ones burn oil so bad they leave little smoke trailed behind them. The early Chrysler V6s had bearing problems, which was later remedied. Those engines actually are pretty good, speaking of the pushrod V6s (3.3L and 3.8L), however they ALL got cursed with the wonderful 41TE automatic, which was awful. By the time they finally got those reasonably reliable, they started all over again by adding two gears, and those are just as bad, maybe worse.

Evap cores, steering racks, instrument clusters, E-boxes, wire harnesses, fuel tanks, the world's most idiotic rear drum brake setup, and they feel like they'll come apart at the seems after about 50k miles.

For their final hoorah, they graced them with the Pentostar engine. And that is the ONLY engine. LMAO. We have one of those dead here, waiting for the fleet to OK a replacement. No wonder the VW techs hate the Routan.

D-Cup · Dec 14, 2018

So they got lucky with one of the better engines (3.8L). Got it. Thanks!
I’ll stop looking at those then.

EDIT: Just saw that neither the Toyota or Honda minivans have stow-n-go type seating in the middle. I have a blind Great Dane, and being able to fold away those middle seats and allow her to get in through the sliding door is something that I really want. I guess I can’t have it all.

JDSwan87 · Dec 14, 2018

D-Cup, I looked at the ChryCo variants pretty heavily but for all the reasons Oilhammer mentioned, I'm shying away from them. I actually work for FCA, so I could get the employee discount on a new one but I'm holding to my strict budget of $20k all in, after catch up maint, taxes, registration and everything. Also the ChryCo version in my budget range means a Caravan/T&C, which do not score well in crash tests and the car seat rating aren't stellar either.

Possible New-to-me vehicle purchase

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